What do Mongolians think of Inner Mongolia?

Podcast: With a Chinese tour group through Inner Mongolia with Cornelia Zausinger

Cornelia was already a guest on my podcast when she told us everything about the organization and insurance of world travel. In her private life, she also likes to travel and tells us today about a really wild adventure and how it came about that she traveled through Inner Mongolia with a Chinese tour group.

What many do not know - Inner Mongolia belongs to China and can therefore be visited by Chinese without a visa. The trip with such a tour group from China was a real adventure. And even if it's not exactly my way of traveling, I find Cornelia's experience very exciting.

Learn about Inner Mongolia in this episode:

  • How to get to Inner Mongolia from Beijing
  • How a luxury yurt differs from a standard yurt
  • What distinguishes Chinese tour groups from European ones
  • Why you should definitely have a pointing book with you
  • What you can experience in an amusement park in the Gobi desert


Show notes about the
Inner Mongolia:

Sebastian: Welcome to a new Off The Path Podcast episode! Today we have another guest who has been there before, but this time privately. Last time Cornelia from STA Travel was there, today Cornelia is privately as a guest. Welcome, nice to have you here!

Cornelia: Thank you for letting me take part again!

Sebastian: Today we are talking in private about one of your trips and you were - and I just found that out in the preliminary talk - in Inner Mongolia. This is a little different to Outer Mongolia, or what is it called then?

Cornelia: Exactly, you know Mongolia. That's also the first thing people think when I tell them that I've been there. But Inner Mongolia is an autonomous region and belongs to China. So, you stay within China and you are not in Mongolia. The two places merge geographically. It's actually the same in terms of landscape, but it's in China.

Sebastian: OK. And the people there are then not Mongols, but Chinese.

Cornelia: Exactly, officially they are Chinese, although of course the ancestry of the people is very Mongolian. So, the feeling when you see the people etc., then of course you already have the impression as if you are in Mongolia. They also look very Mongolian and many probably feel more like Mongols as well. This story goes back many, many hundreds of years, how it was separated and such. It's a special thing, but officially you are in China and the Chinese like to travel to Inner Mongolia from time to time.

Sebastian: Because they don't need a visa there, probably.

Cornelia: For example, exactly. That was also one of the reasons why we did it. That was the part of a longer trip that we did. We visited friends who had lived in Beijing for a few years, and in China there is always a week in spring and autumn when the entire country is free. In autumn it's Golden Week, which is always at the end of September / beginning of October and we went to our friends' Golden Week, spent a lot of time with them in Beijing and then drove around together for a week.

Then we thought about what we would do “Mongolia would be cool”. But that's always a bit complicated with leaving and re-entering China and then we noticed that there is also Inner Mongolia, which still belongs to China, and so we thought, “That's cool too, then let's do it! "

Sebastian: Cool, but then you didn't rent a car and just drove there, instead you went with a Chinese tour group.

Cornelia: Exactly. It wasn't as if that was our plan, “Yeah, we really want to go with a Chinese tour group”. First of all, of course, we wanted to do the whole thing individually, as we usually travel. The problem, however, is that at first it is not so easy to rent a car in China, or not at all.

But getting there wouldn't have been the problem. We took the night train from Beijing to Hohhot. Hohhot is the capital of Inner Mongolia and has probably never heard of anyone before - 2.5 million residents.

Sebastian: Nah, I've never heard of that.

Cornelia: Island city, yes, Hohhot - capital of Mongolia. Then we looked to see if we had any hostels there that offered excursions into the grassy landscape. We really wanted to go to the grassy landscape and sleep there in a yurt - so, very classic, as you would imagine on a trip to Mongolia. Also the Gobi desert, which borders on Inner Mongolia and then we searched around forever, but since there is almost no tourism there, at least none outside of China, there is almost no offer.

And because you can't rent a car and nobody even remotely speaks English; Limited our Chinese language skills to “a beer please” and “the bill”, it was really not that easy. Our friends, who have lived in Beijing for a while, had their personal travel advisor, a Chinese lady who also organized all of their flights, etc. ...

Sebastian: Are your friends Germans?

Cornelia: Exactly, friends from Germany who lived and worked in Beijing for a few years. It is customary to have your personal travel advisor who will take care of everything, because it is of course not always that easy to get hold of things if you have no idea and do not speak Chinese.

And that more or less gave us the idea that there was also an organized tour that we could go on. And that sounded really cool and we weren't sure what we were doing and in the end we traveled through Inner Mongolia with a Chinese tour group. For five days and that was the bizarre and craziest thing I've ever done while traveling, but also one of the best.

Sebastian: Okay, that sounds cool! So why? Why the bizarre? What happened that made it so weird?

Cornelia: China, the country is already exciting and different from what you are used to; often different from other Asian countries. I had gotten used to that and as I said, this Golden Week: The whole country is really on vacation. All. So, many, many, many, many Mongols and Chinese are going somewhere at the same time. That means trains are booked out months in advance. Absolute chaos breaks out every time. You have hundreds of kilometers of traffic jams in the country. So, really in the whole country. All the migrant workers go home during that time. The whole country is on the move. That's why we couldn't leave until the third day of this Golden Week, because we couldn't get away earlier because everything was so crowded and crazy.

Then we took the night train from Beijing to Hohhot. That was actually pretty cool and a lot better than I imagined. We had our own sleeping car, which the four of us shared. Right next door, however, were the hard seats, i.e. the cheaper train compartments, where they were crowded, like in the bus in rush hour, and had to stand up for 12 hours. And everyone had instant noodles with them and thermos flasks of hot water and it smelled like instant noodles everywhere. That was a start where you thought “How cool is that !?” We were also the only Europeans or non-Chinese at all, that is, Westerners, who were there at all and of course everyone looked at us with great interest.

That was just a start where we thought “Okay, cool”. The tour promised a lot. They said you have a private driver and you can do it however you want. And then we thought, “Great, we have a driver. We have an English speaking guide who can help us and if we say that we want to do that today, we do it that way, etc. ” Then we arrived in Hohhot in the morning and then we were picked up by a car and our guide, who was a young Chinese woman, couldn't speak a word of English, but had a translation computer. That was her English, what she could and it was always great fun to even try to communicate with her. The driver couldn't speak a word of English at all and then we just started: Our first destination was the grassy landscape - that is what I had been looking forward to, sleeping in the yurt, riding, sunrise, etc.

That was a very adventurous journey there. The streets - that is beyond good and evil. And there are sections of the route where you usually have to pay a toll. But the Chinese are clever and just drive across the field. But the farmers there are even smarter and then they put big trees over the field, which they always pull away with the tractor when a car comes and then you can pay them money so that they let you through. That's just cheaper than the normal toll, but then you drive over this field and then at some point a farmer comes who then pulls this tree away again and then you can continue driving across the field. That was just totally bizarre.

Then at some point we arrived in this grassy landscape and there were yurts, as one had imagined, and then we arrived at the same time with a completely normal coach, where a whole bunch of Chinese got off. And as it turned out, we were more or less a group, only that we Europeans were transported in a car and the Chinese in a bus.

Sebastian: Oh, crazy!

Cornelia: Yes. And we actually did everything together; we were just separated from each other during the transport and had our own guide and our own table. Well, the others weren't allowed to sit down with us at the table, which we thought was a shame, because it was of course really exciting to be so close with people and to try to communicate. That didn't go very well because nobody spoke English, but then we always ate together, for example. In China it is common for you to have huge round tables that you can then turn, and then a lot of dishes are simply placed in the middle and everyone takes something out and then you turn again. There were always large tables that could accommodate 10 to 12 people. There were four of us and it was always our VIP table. It was then marked with a red ribbon and then we said to the others “Sit down with us” and then the tour guide always came and made a big fuss “No, no, no, you are not allowed to sit down there!” So that we didn't even have the opportunity to talk to the others. But we got as much food as the Chinese had on their table, who were sitting with 12 people and four were sitting with four and had a lot to eat. So you didn't starve.

Sebastian: Crazy, but why weren't they allowed to sit down with you? Because they didn't pay for it, or because they thought you didn't want it, or because they thought they didn't want it?

Cornelia: I believe second. We couldn't really figure it out because it was quite difficult to communicate, but we had basically booked the deluxe private tour and the others had booked the simple tour and the deluxe private tour included the fact that you have your own table. And if that is the case, then it is so and then the others are not allowed to sit there.

Sebastian: Awesome!

Cornelia: There were lots of things where you got a really strong impression of the culture of the Chinese and thus also the travel groups that you see here in Germany can be assessed very differently. Because, you really noticed how people feel on vacation and how they feel about travel. What do they find interesting, cool and how do they do it?

Sebastian: Yes.

Cornelia: It was completely different from what we imagine. That was the difference between deluxe and private. We then had the deluxe yurt and the others had a collective yurt and just had to lie down next to each other in the yurt with 18 people. I was also very happy that I didn't have to sleep with them right in the yurt. We had a two-man yurt for two people. But it was still very strange. The bed was tiled. So it was a concrete block that was tiled and there was a blanket on it and we had our own toilet and a TV - it didn't work, but we had a TV.

In the end, we would have preferred to lie in the collective yurt because it was minus 16 degrees at night; there was no stove or anything and you lay on a tiled concrete bed to sleep. With a blanket. At minus 16 degrees. In the luxury yurt, but the main thing is that you have a TV. It was so crazy that we just kept thinking, “What are we doing here? What is that, actually?"

It was still wonderful. This grassy landscape ... I don't know if you've been to Mongolia before. That's amazing!

Sebastian: No no.

Cornelia: This eternal space that you have. We were there in late summer / early fall. Of course, it wasn't as lush green as it is in spring or summer. But you still had this eternal space. It was super nice weather with sunshine, but it was very cold. We then rode out to such strange temples, to some piles of stones where some flags were flown. I don't know exactly what we were looking at because no one could tell us. In any case, we rode around there and it was really cool to just ride through this vastness. That was very impressive and then a lamb was slaughtered especially for that evening. In the morning when we arrived it was still there and was grazing and at noon it was hanging there, bleeding and in the evening it was on the table.

Sebastian: So, the trip is not for vegans and vegetarians?

Cornelia: I'm vegetarian. You can't be too squeamish about that either. I didn’t eat it, but to watch it was… well. But that's the way it is. This is nature.

Sebastian: Yes, different countries, different customs.

Cornelia: Exactly, you are just close and in the evening there was - we always called it party yurt, because everyone fit in with the meal. Then we ate together and the Chinese somehow had a family celebration, where I think one of the children had a ritual of growing up - we couldn't quite understand it - but in any case the poor boy had to eat the lamb's penis as a ritual. And then he had to sing something and at some point everyone sang. It was so funny. Of course there was also a lot of schnapps and a lot of food. It was like sitting in a theater. We looked at it for two hours and thought, “Okay, cool. All right ”. It was really very funny, and that's how it goes through these five days, that we somehow had very weird experiences every day that you weren't prepared for at all because you didn't even know what was coming next.

We had a rough plan and knew: grassy landscape, we're going to the Gobi desert and we're a bit in the capital. That was all we knew But we were in no way aware of what that means in detail. And that's why every day was very exciting.

Sebastian: How is that Well, I can imagine that when I look at all of these Chinese tour groups in Europe, they travel pretty quickly and when I do an activity - for example, I did that with Chinese in Canada - for example, horse riding, then that is it actually a group that has no idea what they are doing and takes a lot of photos, chats a lot and is actually not really present.

Cornelia: Yes.

Sebastian: Is that how it was?

Cornelia: Yes, this tour was also relatively short. If you only have a week's vacation twice a year, then you have to hurry when you're on the road. Accordingly, the tour was also relatively tight. Because we were traveling with our own car, we were always there a bit earlier and had a bit more time, but they were just like you know here when you walk through the city and a Chinese tour group met, everyone always in a crowd, just taking photos, chatting all the time and you don't have the impression that they know what they're doing. Here a pose, there a pose for the souvenir photo, stand next to the statue, stand next to the other statue. But that they just sit and enjoy or something, that was very seldom seen.Then there were a few of the younger ones who tried a bit to communicate with us before we had dinner when we got a beer, but otherwise it was really exactly as you imagine it to be.

Sebastian: Hmm, amazing! I imagine it to be very, very adventurous. If you're with Spaniards or Italians or something like that, or Americans, and they only speak English and you only speak German, then somehow you try to talk to each other with your hands and feet, but I think it's just a little difficult because Then there are these blatant cultural differences that make it even harder to talk.

Cornelia: Yes, and the language is so far apart too. So, with Italian or Spanish or something like that you always know a bit or the languages ​​are much closer, but you just have no idea about Chinese. We had a show book with us for a few things, but in the conversation you can only briefly show our name or where we come from, “beer is good” sort of like that, but that wasn't more than that.

Sebastian: But such a show book is definitely extremely cool. I recently saw a Kickstarter or something where someone developed a T-shirt where you just have to point to all the signs.  

Cornelia: Ah, that's even more practical.

Sebastian: Taxi, train, to get to the station.

Cornelia: If you live in Beijing without a show book like that, you can forget it! The experts who live there all have that. You always have it with you, even when you go shopping for food, so that you can make the exact difference which vegetables you want or something. That’s worth a lot.

Sebastian: Okay cool. So, it's best to link such a show book to the show notes in case someone wants to travel to Inner Mongolia or China.

Cornelia: Yes, that is very, very helpful. That brings a lot and I can only recommend it. Definitely in Inner Mongolia. You can't do without it.

Sebastian: What else did you do in Inner Mongolia? You just said riding out now. Did you go hiking or something?

Cornelia: In the grass steppe it was like this: The ride was a big part of it and then we just walked around. Then there was a Mongolian wrestling match to watch. Wrestling is also the state sport in Mongolia. They then run towards each other and wrestle, as we know it, in traditional clothing and then something is done with the horses. Then they show how cool they can ride. They can do that very impressively. This is really amazing. Well, they don't need hands to ride, they definitely have what it takes. You could do something like that, much more is not possible.

The most impressive thing was actually the sunrise. That was really amazing there! Because you really have this eternal space and the whole country glows in orange and red and yellow. You just stand there for an hour and watch. Well, the Chinese don't stand there for an hour - they come there, quickly take a picture and go back, but we stood there for a long time.

Sebastian: But one of us, who then sits there first and just looks into the distance and enjoys.

Cornelia: Exactly. I think the most significant was the experience we had in the Gobi Desert to show how incredibly different our two cultures are. That was the second big part of this tour that we go to the Gobi desert. That's on the other end of Inner Mongolia. So that was a long drive where, unfortunately, you couldn't see very much. Otherwise I don't really mind if I drive longer, because I just really like to see what's outside. You can stop and take a photo, but that's completely uninteresting because you were only surrounded by smok and coal mines. When you first got out of this grassy landscape and were in the industrial area. That is also a cliché, how one imagines it. Hohhot was also totally covered in smog. Sometimes you didn't see the hand in front of your eyes. That was really amazing. You really feel that too.

In Beijing you often have the same thing with smog, but it was also very, very extreme because you also had the coal-fired power plants right in front of you. So the trip wasn't as exciting as I had hoped, but we were then full of anticipation for the Gobi desert and our expectation was “Cool! We walk across the dunes and we sit down and watch the sunset! Maybe you can go on a camel tour; something like that ”. How you imagine that as a European when you drive into the desert.

On the way there, our tour guide wrote us a list with her translation computer and it said what we could do there and whether we wanted to. That would then cost the equivalent of 10 euros or so. The list was then “Raspy Socks, Surfcar, Camel, look desert train and comical raspy” and we said “Hähhh !?” No idea. We understood Kamel and said “Sure, let's do it!”

So, we had no idea what that meant. I still have no idea what she meant by “Raspy Socks”, but we said “Okay, let's do it”. Now we get there and then it was an amusement park in the desert. That was so crazy! So the desert also has a very clear border. That was particularly blatant: The desert ended with a large dune and then there was a valley and behind it was a mountain. And then you arrived at this mountain and there was a huge parking lot, like when you drive to Phantasialand and you had to go in and pay admission.

The whole time we were thinking “What are we doing here, where are we here, what's that supposed to be ?!” Until we realized what it was. Then, like with a ski gondola, you will be driven from this rock over the valley into the desert and there was an amusement park that took you through the desert.

Our tour guide didn't want to take our eyes off us all the time and then we had to pull huge-sized cloth shoes over our normal shoes at the beginning, which go up to our knees so that we don't get any sand in our shoes. You weren't allowed to walk around without them. I think it was the Raspy Socks - I don't know - then you walked across the desert on wooden walkways. So not through the sand or something, but you walked across the desert on the wooden walkways and then worked through individual attractions. Then there was camel rides. Then they had converted an old military vehicle into a desert ship - so, it looked like a carnival float. Then you pounded over the dunes with this military vehicle - wooohooo!

The next stop was - we used to go to the Taunus Wunderland when we were very small children and there were very small trains that you could sit on. They then drove through the forest and then you always had stations where a puppet show was played for you.

Sebastian: Yeah i know what you mean yeah!

Cornelia: Then there was. That was the Desert Train look. You sat on a train that drove automatically through the dunes and then every now and then a replica of a Mongolian village and actors came along who then performed a dance. So, totally stupid!

We were thinking all along, "It's like you're in a dream somewhere or something". That was so unreal, but also funny. Well, it was so funny!

In the end we managed to tell the tour guide that we just want to have our peace and quiet and that she should leave and that we will meet at the car in two hours. It was a 10-minute discussion until we did it and then we just took off our raspy socks and walked barefoot through the desert. The other Chinese really thought we were going crazy. Because you could go cross-country through the desert, but only during an expedition. You saw them there again and again. These were then small expedition groups that were equipped as if they were climbing Mount Everest and then walked over these small dunes with sticks. This is how you could have done it in the eyes of the Chinese, but not like us, that you just take off your shoes and go.

Sebastian: Awesome!  

Cornelia: The desert was beautiful! When we left this amusement park a bit behind us - really great! And the amusement park ... I mean, you ended up doing sandboarding. That was really funny and in retrospect it was just a very, very funny experience that I wouldn't want to miss, but at that moment you really thought "You're all crazy!"

Sebastian: Yes, I can very well imagine that. That's the very last thing you imagine when you tell someone “Hey, I was in the Gobi desert and…. Yes".

Cornelia: "I was in an amusement park in the Gobi desert, I don't think you can say that about you ”

Sebastian: Awesome, cool!

Cornelia: You may never do that either, but it's fun. It has something.

Sebastian: Yes, this is definitely something unique.

Cornelia: Yes, definitely.

Sebastian: I don't think anyone would think of doing that. But nobody in our cultural circles would think of building an amusement park there either.

Cornelia: Nah, I don't think so either. And I found it so fascinating because this artificial entertainment that is offered to the people is what the Chinese perceive as authentic travel. I found that so fascinating. I mean, I'm from the industry too and that's why I was interested in the whole thing differently than the 0815 travelers and you always think when you see the Chinese here, “The spiders and they just walk around here” and so on. But even in their own country they travel like that. That's just their culture and they apparently need this entertainment. It is not enough for them that they simply have the desert and enjoy it there and also absorb it, but they have to be entertained.

Sebastian: They need constant sound.

Cornelia: Exactly. It all went Zack, Zack, Zack - from the desert ship to the camel on this train and dum, dum, dum. That was really amazing and I thought that was totally awesome. That's really their way. It was a huge deal for them that they made this trip. That was the whole thing.

Sebastian: Yes, that's really fascinating. Also this ‘the main thing is that there is no boredom‘ and be constantly on the move. It's a Chinese trip around the world in seven days. Once across Europe in seven days. For us, that is inconceivable, just as they cannot imagine how we do things like that. How you did it, for example: Take off your shoes and just walk through the sand. That will not do. First of all, everything has to be completely planned and planned.

But that's also what this trip is about - regardless of whether it is to Inner Mongolia or Thailand. Experiencing these cultural differences up close is what makes traveling so special.

Cornelia: Definitely. I think I've never experienced a culture so closely before. From the moment we got on the train in Beijing until we got back in Beijing, I haven't seen any other Westerner. It couldn't be more authentic. I've had few countries in which I really had the feeling: Okay, no one else and now I'm not just being offered anything because people think I want it that way as a tourist, but they do their thing and I'm allowed to Be part of it.

Sebastian: Yes, that's also what makes it special. Nowadays we have less and less the feeling of being really authentic on the road.

Cornelia: Yes, it is getting more and more difficult.

Sebastian: Would you do a trip like this again?

Cornelia: I've often asked myself if I would do it again. Well, definitely not this trip anymore. Never in my life have I been as freezing as I was on that one night in this yurt. You can't imagine that. It was so cold and then you are lying on such a tiled bed and we were completely dressed in all the pants and jackets we had and had water bottles filled with hot water to create a little warmth under the covers.

Sebastian: Yes I know that!

Cornelia: And then you thought, “It's so hard! I would like to turn to the left, but if I turn to the left, cold air will come under the covers - shit, what do I do now? " Well, I didn't sleep at all and that was really awesome. We weren't able to take a shower until the third night. It was a very extreme tour. That's why I wouldn't do this trip again, but the experience was definitely worth it. But I won't plan on doing this again. If something like that happens again, because that is not something we had planned either - that happened - then I am happy and enjoy it because I can still talk about it for years and when I see the photos I have to laugh again. That's why I definitely don't want to miss a second of this trip, but it was very, very special. But I wouldn't plan that now, no!

Sebastian: But I think it sounds extremely cool.

Cornelia: It definitely was.

Sebastian: I think it's really cool to hear that. I don't know if it would necessarily be my thing.

Cornelia: I do not believe it. I mean, I heard you travel a bit - no, that wouldn't be your thing! It's not my thing either, but you just have to get involved and then it's just really fun. You mustn't give yourself up.

Sebastian: Yes, great respect for the fact that you just went through with it and made the best of it. If someone wants to travel to Inner Mongolia now, do you know to what extent you can somehow do it individually or are you forced to make such a trip?

Cornelia: No, you are not forced to. I think with a little more research you can probably do it yourself. We flew back from Hohhot to Beijing. I think you can fly there from Beijing without any problems. There will probably not be a direct flight from us. The night train was also really very pleasant. The trains are not that expensive in China, you just have to get a ticket early. You can't just go to the train station and say “Ah, I'd like to go there tonight”, you have to book that early enough.

It was super pleasant. We got in at 8 p.m., arrived at 8 a.m. and slept well. There was something to eat so it was great. And in Hohhot itself, as I said, it is a city with over 2 million inhabitants. There are many hotels, there are also one or two hostels and if you turn to them you can be sure that you will somehow get a driver from them. In China it is anyway the case that someone knows you, who knows you ... He'll get you a driver or know some other hotel where you can stay the night.

We only had these five days because our friends then had to continue working in Beijing. If you have more time then it is certainly doable. But then you need a pointer and maybe you should have already translated the most important sentences with Google Translate, so that you can always show it - that's how I did it - “I have to go to the airport”, “I eat no meat ”and things like that to get ahead somehow. I am sure that it will work, but as I said: you cannot rent a car and drive off yourself, so you are always somehow dependent on a driver or a guide. Then you are just a bit at the mercy of that.

Sebastian: Yeah yeah How does it look there in terms of price? Is this an expensive area?

Cornelia: No, that's super cheap. I think we did this complete tour - it included the train ride, all the overnight stays, the flight back and all the food; only entry to the amusement park was not included - I think 180 euros each paid.

Sebastian: Awesome!

Cornelia: That's why we didn't think about it for long and said “Yes, of course! We'll do it for 180 euros ”. And if you do that yourself, you will likely come up with a similar price. But that was about four years ago. That's why I don't know. It can of course be that it has become a bit more expensive in the meantime.

Sebastian: Yes, but that may go up from 180 euros to 200 euros or so in four years.

Cornelia: Where I am very sure is that it is still the same and that nothing has changed in terms of tourism. I mean, it's four years in Bali, like a decade elsewhere. Everything is completely different there. I am very, very sure that nothing has happened in Inner Mongolia.  

Sebastian: Cool! Do you remember the name of the company you booked it with or how you can book it in case someone is so crazy and says "Hey, that sounds so cool, I want to experience that too!"

Cornelia: Unfortunately not at all because, as I said, this friend booked it. So, if you have a travel agent there, then you don't have a travel agency you go to, but you are sitting somewhere at home and you have a cell phone number from them somewhere. You then meet at the train station to hand over the things. Unfortunately I have nothing there. If someone wants to dare this adventure, I can provide the inspiration, but unfortunately I no longer have any information about who to turn to.

Sebastian: Well, that doesn't matter. I think your adventure in Inner Mongolia sounded great. And I would say we end this. That was inspiration enough now for the few crazy people who might want to do it. I think I would do it too, but then I would do it on my own. But it sounds really exciting. Mongolia has always been at the top of the list and I think Inner Mongolia would be really Off The Path!

Cornelia: Oh yes, definitely. I think that would fit a lot better because almost everyone travels to Mongolia now, right?

Sebastian: Yes exactly, great! Cornelia, thank you very much for your time and for this inspiration, for your stories, just wonderful! Thank you very much!

Cornelia: With pleasure!

Sebastian: See you soon!

Cornelia: Ciao!

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